Silver Continues To Drain From The Shanghai Futures Exchange

In the past week, the Shanghai Futures Exchange suffered another large withdrawal of silver from its warehouse stocks.  Actually, this is the lowest level of silver inventories since the exchange started building its silver stocks in August, 2012.

In my article, Large Decline Of Shanghai & Comex Silver Stocks, I reported that inventories at both exchanges fell significantly since the beginning of March.  According to the most recent data, the Shanghai Futures Exchange had another 41 metric tons (1.3 million oz) of silver withdrawn as well as a million oz removed from the Comex since April 10th.

Shanghai Silver Stocks April 10 2014

Shanghai Silver Stocks April 18 2014

(Note: figures are in Kilograms)

Here we can see that the silver stocks at the Shanghai Futures Exchange declined from 372 metric tons on April 10th, to 331 metric tons of Friday, April 18th.  This was an 11% decline in total stocks in just 8 days.

Moreover, the Comex saw its silver inventories fall from 177.7 million oz to 176.7 million oz during the same time period.

Comex Silver Inventories 41814

I took the weekly data from the Shanghai Futures Exchange (SHFE) and made the graph below.  Silver inventories at the SHFE peaked at 575 metric tons at the beginning of March (same time as the Comex), and declined 224 metric tons (42%) to reach an all-time low of 331 metric tons on Friday, April 18th.

Shangahai Futures Exchange Silver Inventories April 18 2014

The total withdrawal of silver from both exchanges since the beginning of March:

Shanghai Futures Exchange = -7.8 million oz (244 metric tons)

Comex Inventories = -6.7 million oz (208 metric tons)

In less than two months, a total of 14.5 million oz (452 metric tons) of silver were removed from both exchanges.  The interesting thing to focus on here, is the difference in percentage of withdrawals at the two warehouses.  While the Comex experienced a 4% decline of its inventories, the SHFE lost 42% of its total warehouse stocks.

Even more interesting… SHFE silver warehouse stocks are down a stunning 70% since their Peak of 1,123 metric tons, one year ago.

shanghai Silver Stocks 41213

You see, after the big take-down in the precious metals last year, the SHFE silver stocks fell to a low of 385 metric tons by mid November.  Over the past 4 months, the SHFE continued to build its silver inventories reaching 575 metric tons on Feb 28th (shown above).

For some reason, silver continues to be drained from both exchanges….coincidentally this is taking place at the same time the top banks are exiting the commodity trading business.  On March 19th, JP Morgan announced:

JPMorgan sells physical commodities unit to Mercuria for $3.5 billion

and just out today:

Barclays to wind down commodities trading

Of course, these two banks are going to hold onto their precious metals trading activity… because how would the Fed continue to manipulate the paper price of gold and silver without the aid of these fine institutions.

Furthermore, ever since Deutsche Bank announced that it was exiting its participation in price-fixing of gold and silver on Jan 17th, there have been a rash of mysterious banker deaths and suicides.

Something very fishy and foul is taking place at the top banking institutions.  Unfortunately all we can do is speculate, but I would imagine things are about to get a great deal more interesting as time goes by.

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44 Comments on "Silver Continues To Drain From The Shanghai Futures Exchange"

  1. In the spirit of “Walter” – who used to ask the most simple-seeming but really thought provoking questions here –

    “the Shanghai Futures Exchange suffered another large withdrawal of silver from its warehouse stocks.”

    err, what does this mean? Suffered seems kind of dramatic. Is there a backstory to why you might have chosen that word? Is there something about silver leaving the warehouse which connects to the rest of the piece about bankers?

    Sorry for being to stoopid to get it.

    • Moe,

      Yes, I take some liberties in the adjectives to get more people to read… SHARP EYE.


  2. Kaiser Sousa | April 21, 2014 at 11:05 am |

    Great site and appreciate the time and effort u put in to keep the “enlightened” regarding real money updated and continuously informed. With that, would u care to postulate as to who/where this Silver is being absorbed…cheers
    ps: how did u enjoy the phony paper price take down in the usual markets and the usual times with Asia closed for the day???? coincidence if of course…

  3. I’m confused.

    • Great reports!

      (One typo “Comes” I believe should be “COMEX”. )

      Shanghai Futures Exchange = -7.8 million oz (244 metric tons)

      “Comes” Inventories = -6.7 million oz (208 metric tons)

      It took me a second or two realize what you meant and I am close to the issues.

  4. DaleFromCalgary | April 21, 2014 at 6:48 pm |

    I’ve seen it mentioned elsewhere that ETF drawdowns are a way of disguising physical metal accumulation by the big players. Do you think there is any truth to this idea?

  5. IMO…i don’t think that gold and silver will ever be set free as long as the rule of law is not respected.
    Think about it…not one banker has gone to prison for the crimes they have committed.

    As long as there is no honor in system….honest money will not be respected. And China is not going to save you. They have exterminated millions of their own people. The amerikan silver and gold bugs will be discarded by the criminal banksters as long as they run it.

    And trust me…they run it all: edu, markets, resources, govt, monetary, military’s, and corps.

    The hope that silver and gold will save you in a dishonest, immoral society is naive.

    Will the dollar collapse? History and math tell you that it will with certainty. What is not certain is that an honest system will replace it. The chances that the new order is going to be honest is very slim IMO.

    • “The hope that silver and gold will save you in a dishonest, immoral society is naive”.

      How is the term “save you” going to be defined?

      “Will the dollar collapse? History and math tell you that it will with certainty”.

      What do you think the most accepted form of money would be if the dollar collapses? There are several ways it could rejection by foreign countries [happening now], and dollars coming back to buy up tangible assets from the country that issued them [happening with at least gold & silver], loss of confidence & resulting hyperinflation [probable].

      “And trust me…they run it all: edu, markets, resources, govt, monetary, military’s, and corps”.

      I agree they run it all for now, but their grip is loosening. No manipulation lasts forever.

    • So what’s your point? Curl up in a ball and suck your thumb?

  6. Jojo Kracko | April 21, 2014 at 9:20 pm |

    Yeah, but look at your own chart. Silver inventories are still high relative to where they’ve been last year. You act like this should be some sort of shocker that the inventories in the vaults are liquidated when the price of silver declines a couple bucks.

    Everything is normal. Nothing to see here. Move along.

    • Drawdown of silver inventories has indeed been tame (tame to non-existent), in face of the 50 – 20$ price decline. Until I see silver inventories seriously decline, I will not feel safe as a silver investor. Another price decline is still plausible.

      I have partially switched to gold, since there are many more signs of an actual (at least a developing) physical shortage in gold.

  7. thanks for what you do, I could try to build up what I want to say I will just go back to why I said it THANKS for what you do. I need the best information that I can get from those that give me that info.
    thanks you

  8. If these bankers are really closing down their operations, and not just transferring them out of over-regulated jurisdictions, then it means that these bankers believe there is no profit to be made in commodities. They believe that gold and silver will be flatlining for the foreseeable future. They believe that the inflation play is over and the play of the day is the deflation fear. However, big banks are usually not very good in predicting trends and assessing global risk. So this just may be the ending phase of the brutal correction in the metals.

  9. Compared with global annual production of 27,000 tons these figures are tiny. If these exchanges are only selling off (I assume selling) a few hundred tons over months they can only be small players in the global physical silver business so I cannot see any significance, political or otherwise, in the article.

    • Ditto. I usually very much agree with Steve, but I cannot see why he would emphasize such a meaningless development.

  10. Max Meister | April 22, 2014 at 4:20 am |

    A decrease in gold and/or Silver inventories at Futures exchanges didn’t really mean anything in the past. They will just buy new stuff and that’s it. We are not yet at the point of physical shortages, otherwise the price could not be falling. As long as (silver) miners produce more silver every year even when the price is at or below mining cost, a shortage is unlikely to emerge in the near future.

    • Max,

      “As long as (silver) miners produce more silver every year even when the price is at or below mining cost, a shortage is unlikely to emerge in the near future”.

      The fact is very few are producing at or below cost, and not for long; they shut down.

      Don’t confuse U.S and Canadian mining costs with the costs in developing nations.

      Shortages will come and that will be the game changer. All we would need is for big investors; really only a dozen or so billionaires, or a sovereign nation like China, or India to start buying in earnest.

    • Yeah Max, these morons still keep churning out the metal at record pace. They are producing something, and losing money at it – how is that for a business model?

      But you can always get “help” from one of those friendly bullion banks, that will give you all the financing you need, and more, if you “hedge” – in plain english: put on shorts on your own product in their paper casino, on which the house, and only the house, will profit, when prices eventually turn.

      In keeping supply high, the miners are also preventing a shortage, thus aiding in keeping the price down. How’s that for smart business?
      Imagine the price of oil dropping 60% – would OPEC keep their oil output at maximum? Hell no! They’d give us the boot. If we wouldn’t pay for their stuff, we simply wouldn’t be getting any.

      In short: everything possible to ruin their own business, the miners will do. They are the worst of the worst, and in investing in them, you will lose everything. I’d rather give Madoff my money, than buy mining stocks!

  11. Wonder why Sprott and partners and business friends don’t crash comex

  12. Silver supply down means that silver prices will drop. Basic economic supply-demand theory in the new normal, market rigged society.

  13. On the topic of energy, I just stumbled across a basic wikipedia page:

    Do you notice, how world energy consumption has gone up considerably since 1990, but renewable energy as a percentage has actually declined?

    Savour this fact: during the past 23 years, renewable energy has actually GONE DOWN! How’s that for sustainability for you?

    This world is absolutely 100% dependent on the availability of oil. If oil gets harder to extract, human activity will decline. It’s pretty much a 1:1 correlation.

    There are some potential energy savings here and there, but especially in Otto motors, we have exhausted those savings. Car and truck engines will not get much more efficient from here on. And that area, transporation, is where most of the oil is consumed.

    I apologize that I stress this so much, but it has just sunk in for me – absolutely everything about the modern human society is about energy. We are in for some major changes. We can just hope they will be slow.

  14. Another enlightening fact I just came across, also within a Wikipedia article:

    I have always been under the impression GDP growth of China was in the high single digit or very low double digit range. Because everyone in the media always states it that way.

    Well guess what, that is in Yuan. And the Yuan has been rising.

    In USD, Chinese GDP has grown an average of almost 20% since the turn of the millenium. They have gone from a GDP of 1,1 tn USD in 2000 to a GDP of 9,1 tn USD in 2013.

    Within 15 years, China will have increased their GDP 10fold.

    Savour that fact, while we in the West enjoy our 2% growth rates within our robust economic recovery!

    Also savour the fact that gold and silver ownership has only been legal over there since 2004. The Chinese people had no gold since a couple of years ago. And guess what – now they have purchasing power. Average salary now is 650 USD, and rising. They can now afford to buy PMs. And the government runs propaganda campaigns in state TV, advising the people to buy PMs.

    China is already consuming all the world’s gold production. However, demand is not at a high right now. It is at a low.

  15. roguefaction | April 22, 2014 at 11:01 pm |

    Actually, the use of GDP to accurately measure a nations’ ‘growth’ or ‘net wealth’ is akin to the balance sheet acrobatics by which the miners you so despise cultivate the delusive hopes of their shareholders. The major problem with both metrics being the inability to measure real productivity – as in value created via the production of tradeable assets.

    Financialization of national economies – the trade in derivatives and ‘financial products’ which have no inherent value – has created a notional definition of “GDP” which now distorts the effort to evaluate just how much wealth a country is able to create, and how productive it’s capital markets and labor force are. In the case of China, the exponential increase in the so-called ‘shadow banking’ sector of the economy, and the multifarious commodity collateral scams which skew foreign exchange ratios as well as obscure real economic activity are mostly behind the numbers which the GDP measurement falsely purports to be real ‘production.’

    Ironically, in view of your proposition re gold and China, it’s very much the use of ‘monetary metals’ as proxies for warehousing import/export scams to back credit bubbles that has inflated the numbers that the false metric of GDP uses to gauge economic ‘growth'[many people do not realize that copper – along with silver- was the main form of currency used in China for many centuries past]. Gold and copper being used to fuel growth in consumption via credit collateral scams is a very nasty revision of the supposed definition of “hard money” – but that’s the way the world works -at the moment!

    China has advanced mightily in the last two decades, and it’s economic growth, even when measured without the phony inputs of “GDP” is surely impressive. But the currently en vogue supposition on the part of precious metals bugs clutching at straws – that strong demand in China for gold will translate into an increase in the price of their stashes in the western world- is one of the biggest and most dangerous myths to have been cultivated by the gatekeepers of the so-called alternative media.

    Discussing that fact is currently forbidden here, and everywhere else that dupes who unknowingly shill for the moneypower are allowed to dictate the conversation so as to keep readers from getting the real skinny… but the embargo on open discussion will inevitably be deleted as the empty rhetoric of the pumpers becomes exposed as just that, and investors demand to have the facts at their disposal.

    • Okay. I’ll just lower myself and reply within the same standard:

      1. yes, you are correct roguefaction, GDP as a measurement of economic activity isn’t accurate – at least not in the case of China. Those “Made in China” labels that we Westeners see on 3 out of 4 of the products we buy today are fake and meaningless.
      When it comes to the US though, GDP is sound and accurate. The US is a real economic powerhouse with lots of real production within a robust free market environment. A stock market that has been blown up to bubble territory, massive central bank intervention, and a quadrillion of derivatives has nothing to do with it. The US economy is SOUND.

      2. yes, you are correct roguefaction, the CCFD explation of Chinese gold demand put out originally by Goldman Sachs is absolutely accurate. There is no inherent investment demand for precious metals in China, they all just use it as a host to aquire more precious fiat currency!
      A 100 million strong middle class within a country that has a history of saving & precious metals has nothing to do with it.

      3. yes, you are correct roguefaction, massive demand for an investment in one part of the world will not mean increased prices in another part of the world. We are still in the 15th century, and there are no global markets. Also, there are no white people yet in America and there is no Internet, so who am I talking to?

      Getting back to serious again: I highly value you, Steven, and your articles. They opened my eyes to certain facts. I have stated this repeatedly, since I like to give credit where it’s due. And I like to contribute in the form of sharing my own information and thoughts, which I think will be helpful to others.

      There has been an element that has been developing here, that does not value you, Steve. They value your work (why else would they stick around), but they will never give you credit. They will take the knowledge you provide for free, behind your back, while criticizing you in public. The more you give, the more they will take, without ever giving something back – in fact, you will be punished for what you offer them.
      You will never be able to convince them, and you will never be able to reason with them.

      In today’s society, and I hope it has not always been like this, it is required to allow and tolerate any kind of sick opinion or offense. If you get angry at something or someone, be it for the most justified of reasons, YOU are the villain.
      You may silence and discipline your child when it throws a temper tantrum, but you may not silence and discipline an adult, who is a child at heart, and whose temper tantrums are a lot more elaborate and well disguised.
      That is our society. The children who could & would not be disciplined rule it. And they are disciplining those who would try to discipline them.

      Steve, you have shown a great deal of patience with this element, as I would call it. And rightfully so – everyone deserves a chance. However, there is a point where this has to stop, or the element will take over.

      This is what happened to TFMetalsreport. TFM in the beginning was a beautiful small blog with lots of info and good people willing to share. Now, the trolls completely own the place, with the timid sheep and wagon hoppers on their side. Of course, Turd likes it – this kind of audience always make for the most comments, visits, ad views, $$$.

      You are currently at a crossroads:

      a) stay within the boundaries of a small blog with quality content and readership.
      b) go commercial, which means open this blog to all the BS in the world. Which also means you can never go back to option a, because the quality readership will leave and never come back, and once the trolls conquer this new territory, they will never give it back.

      There is no inbetween, and no option c. Trust me, I have seen it many times.

      I of course can’t argue if you would want to make money off this site, since you put a lot of good work into it. And you would deserve it.

      However, if you chose option a), you would make me, and I would assume a lot of other good people, very happy.

      It could be achieved either via self-regulation (maybe the trolls will lose their appetite), or, if the troll-storm, as seen recently, persists, make the comment section registration only, and mercilessly remove everyone who does not contribute to the discussion in a constructive manner. And I stress “merciless”. They deserve zero attention, zero pity, zero tolerance. They need to be removed with extreme prejudice.

      And you need to be a good judge of character to achieve that. I would probably be removed from a lot of message boards, because I am obviously angry and fed up on the outside. But if you look hard, you will see that everything that I write has a constructive side to it. And I will always tell you how and what I think. I will never disguise myself, I will never sweet-talk you.

      Trolls are calm on the outside, and know only anger and destruction on the inside. And they only care about themselves – that’s why they will never enter any risk by voicing an unwelcome or unpopular opinion, or one that is outside the spectrum of debate. Because what they care about is making others agree with them, to gain status. They will never tell you an unpleasant truth that could benefit you, but potentially hurt them for telling you.

      Okay.. I must admit, I very very rarely do these kind of speeches anymore. People usually not only do not listen, but actually attack you. So nowadays I mostly choose to protect myself.
      I don’t expect a good result from this one either. But this blog is worth something to me, so I had to try.

      • roguefaction | April 23, 2014 at 10:00 am |

        Massive fail at comprehending what was written.

        But keep up with the “lowering” son…you may just get back down to earth one of these days.
        Meanwhile tho, you are so far out of your league in understanding the subject this blog handles that the extra doses of arrogance, hostility and just plain witlessness you insist on serving up on almost every post here is a convenient marker for those who remain unattached emotionally to their investment in pm’s to gauge the degree to which this blog is a suitable place to contribute and collaborate.

        You are indeed absolutely correct – the site is “currently at a crossroads” – and unless and until your spite and provocation are reined in it will remain in stasis from the promise it had originally shown. Suck up to the blog owner all you wish. My appraisal of his instincts is that sooner or later, maybe much later – that’s up to him of course- he will figure out where he needs and wants to go with this venture, and make the appropriate moves. Anything short of that will simply leave the field open for another bright person to fill. Ad homs, straw men, and calls for everybody you don’t like to leave are an explosive cocktail of peril to this place’s chances of growing into something good. If your style finds a nest here, thinking folks will simply find another.

        Your recent over the top call for BLOOD here[] is a sign of the psychosis which can afflict those whose disappointment in their investment decisions gets the better of their judgement. You appear to have developed a full blown case of “Chas Savoie Syndrome” – wherein the world descends into a maelstrom of comic book action heroes-in-their-own-minds who valiantly struggle against a host of Bad Guys/”Trolls”[basically anybody whose minds fail to mesh with your strident calls for conformity] and thereby provides some kind of venting for the pent up frustration of things not having worked out quite as planned.

        The part of your screed which you -sort of – addressed to me doesn’t need a response. You’ve lost the thread. I wish you the best – you seem a bright enough kid that -getting over yourself- you could contribute something of value to the community. But for now, youse got to know… whatever shallow part of the pool in which your bullying bellicosity used to get you a mark of achievement … this ain’t the lily pond you were looking for. Keep up the bs and eventually I’ll just get tired of staying civil with you and dish what you like to serve. You ARE TFMETALS in the flesh bud! Getta hold of yourself fore you jump the shark fo-ever.

        • Trying to debate you and your like is like watching Peter Schiff on CNBC. The poor guy tries hard, but never reaches anyone. Neither do I, so I have stopped trying.

          And neither does Steve. In a way, I admire his patience and tolerance, on the other hand I see that the limits he sets for his tolerance, and spectrum of debate allowed here, are those which are set by society.

          I bet he works a standard 40 hour job in his regular life. He may be able to think and analyze outside the box, but he does not live outside the box. I am sure he pays his taxes and builds up his pension, like everyone else does… lives in his nice little home, pays his mortage..

          Steve DeAngelo, for all his outstanding work within the articles of a blog, is a system supporter – if push comes to shove, he will defend the system and its methods.

          This blog is now one of the many “enlightened, tolerant and civilized” alternative blogs out there, where old men live out their fantasies of rebellion, while, when push comes to shove, they would readily and gladly crawl into their holes and give up any freedom, honor, and equity for daddy Obama to give them a little security.

          I have no place among you, because I still have freedom, I still have honor, and I will die before giving them up. Not that it will come to that, because I am too smart and strong to let something negative happen to me and my life.

          I will prosper. And as it seems, I will not only be among the very few within society as general who will prosper – I will also be one of the very few who will prosper among the PM community.

          All the best guys – maybe some of you will see the light.

    • Rogue & All…

      There are no FORBIDDEN subjects discussed in this forum. I only moderate SPAM and SPAM wanna-bes.

      You’re more than welcome to discuss your opinion that Investment Demand and KWN are completely FOS- Full Of Sheet to your heart’s desire.

      Everyone has an opinion. Hell you put 3 or more Keynesians in a room, and they will disagree on the details.

      I can’t put articles and data out on the EROI-ENERGY impacting the PRECIOUS METALS & MINING day in and day out. So, I throw in posts on additional information and data that interests me. Could this data be meaningless as some have said…. sure… So what.

      On the other hand, I see very serious problems on the horizon, in the not-too-distant future… which makes most of the debate here seem quite PATHETIC (mine included) in the whole scheme of things.

      So, please continue to debate all issues to your hearts’ desire…. I am not going to moderate debate, only if it degrades to name calling and Spam.


      • Bye, and thanks for your work so far.

      • Steve,

        “On the other hand, I see very serious problems on the horizon, in the not-too-distant future… which makes most of the debate here seem quite PATHETIC (mine included) in the whole scheme of things”.

        Don’t underestimate many of your readers’ ability to see some of the same possible scenarios you see.

  16. Outlookingin | April 23, 2014 at 8:52 am |

    Hand in hand with silver draw downs on the SGE, is the fact that gold deliveries to China through the SGE are also down.

    Chinese retail physical gold and silver demand has not diminished. It has grown.

    The GOFO rates are now negative out to 6 months, which signals physical gold in tight supply.

    Both the price of gold and silver continue to be smashed lower by the PM cartel.

    The above tells me that the only reason the Chinese gold deliveries from the SGE have shrunk, is a shortage of physical gold supply to satisfy demand.

  17. I would have to agree, this site, like most any good forum format site, especially those that seem to have a contrary take to the Big Finance/Fed/MSM position, have a troll problem. The way I think of it is to imagine that I really like a restaurant, and the restaurant has a website, with a public forum. Most who come to the site rave about the food, but there are also the few who come to complain about the food, a natural thing. Maybe they don’t like Thai food, or whatever. What would then be also natural, would be to move on to a site of a restaurant that serves biscuits and gravy, if that’s what they like, and rave about it. To keep coming back to the site of a restaurant you don’t like and bitching about it…well, at the very least, its not helpful. More to the point, the chances are that some other restaurant is paying them to do it, or they have neurotic personality and simply need attention, or they have a more serious personality disorder, and NEED to makes other wrong, while being right themselves. Or a screwed up combo of any of the above. Whatever, if you don’t like something, move on. If you don’t, why are you here? Trolls usually play the ‘you don’t allow other opinions!’ card, but after reading over literally hundreds of forums, there is a pattern to their dissent that is not merely another opinion. They are toxic, and they know it.

    One other thought, on the question of what sort of system might come along after the absolute mess we have now. The problem is, if you take a long enough view of history, the fact is that we more or less fight like hell to become free, or what we perceive as free, then rapidly get back to having kid, and pursuing happiness. Every human beings right. The problem is, that we then offload our thinking to others, which I see as the crux of the problem. Sooner or later, the same type of human being always seems to end up in a position of power and influence, with a collection of sycophants and minions trailing along behind them. My thought is that at this point in human development, we just can’t keep doing that and expect a good outcome. Even a kind, thoughtful, and benevolent dictator(or king, take your pick) is setting the stage for a sociopath to jump onto it. This is not really theory, just a rather casual perusal of our past(and present) history. Perhaps something more approximating the councils of indigenous peoples, with no real power held tightly by any one person, and public recognition that anyone who desired more than than they reasonably needed(or was available) might be a problem. Alas, this will probably never happen in my lifetime. Many of my friends and neighbors honestly with they could do even less big picture thinking than they already do…which is already minimal, after all, they just got a new 61″ TV, but somehow have no room in their 2900 square foot house for a bookcase. Not a screaming endorsement for vigilant self-rule. At the same time, had we actually gotten on the ball a couple of centuries back, recognized what a narcissistic or sociopathic ruler looks and acts like, and removed them from power, thereby saving the lives of probably hundreds of millions, then we would likely would also have hit the planets carrying capacity even sooner. A very uncomfortable paradox.

    • roguefaction | April 23, 2014 at 10:08 am |

      If you like paradoxes… consider this one.

      The site doesn’t have a “troll” problem. It has a problem with people using ad homs, straw men, and cries of “troll” etc. to hide the inadequacies of their own reasoning and ability to articulate and defend a position in a civil manner.

      The main gambit behind the use of the above tactics is to sweep the field clear of opposing voices whose position – right or wrong – loved or unloved – would by default encourage a deeper look at the forces affecting our lives than consensus opinion – “alternative” OR mainstream would want us to take.

      And who might that serve?

      You had some good, practical comments to make here. I wish there were more of them. Most of the people who worry about ‘trolls’ and crap like that DO NOT KNOW JACK about anything of practical significance to the world of EROI and it’s application to real life.

      Hey, it’s your call though! If you like your poseurs here… you can keep your poseurs… lol!

      all the best!

  18. the western manipulators have succesfully mesmerized the entire world by creating another stock bubble in USA.

    in the land of silver, china, billionaires all want to invest in tech companies, to multiply their wealth by another 10 fold.

    fortunately, chinese domestic stock market is like any other third world fringe market so smaller investors and middle class ppl have learned to stay away from speculation and choose to invest in more secure and long-time hard currency like gold.

    i’ve been telling ppl to buy silver whenever they are willing to listen.

    there’s a chinese movie called empire of silver, story about the young boss in an old-style silver bank in qing dynasty. i love this movie.

    if you can find someone to subtitle it in english, here’s the link:

    • actually, it already has english subtitle!!!

      steve, maybe you can put the link in your website!!

  19. Distract, subvert, discourage, confuse…


    This is my last comment on the subject manner in this post. I realize there are PUMPER-HYPE precious metal sites. I found it quite interesting that Andy Hoffman took my article on the DARK SIDE OF THE SILVER MINING INDUSTRY as a “Collapse” of the industry. I don’t see it that way… well, not for a while at least.

    I also see many members here GANGING up on those who offer a different opinion. I will not moderate comments unless I see RACISM, FOUR LETTER WORDS aimed at other members, or SPAM.

    Let’s keep the TROLL garbage for other sites. Please try to debate rather than name call.

    Lastly, we all tend to SMACK OURSELVES ON THE BACK because we think we know better than others. I would like to say once again to the members here… we may soon find out that what we thought important to debate and discuss here… totally meaningless in the future.


    • I sympathize Steve, and hesitate to comment more on the topic.

      Just allow me to point out that it was only a week or two ago that you had the same person posting under multiple monikers. I’ve gotten the feeling in the comment section of your last couple of articles that the same kind of thing is happening.

      If you are right in your ideas on energy, and I tend to think you are, then the material you present is explosive. There are interests that will attack you, and damaging the comments board is one way they do it.

      I don’t know what is to be done, I’ve never run a site. You might consult with some of the other folks running good, controversial sites with active, high-quality comment boards. Or you might take the approach of the great Paul Craig Roberts, and disable comments.

      Best wishes, regardless.

  21. I came here because I had similar ideas to yours, though from slightly different data, and from different experiences, and actual hands-on experiments: its all about the energy. All of which, in my mind, lends some credence to both hypotheses. In addition, your house, your rules! None of which, BTW are in the slightest bit unreasonable. Being able to share in this fashion, on this topic, is a treat. I will do my best to keep from antagonizing others…

    thanks for your sharing, and your patience.

  22. FWIW, not much I suspect. My take on Andy Hoffman’s idea of the death of mining is why in the heck would you(Andy) come to that conclusion? It doesn’t even make sense. As food production gets more expensive for many of the same reasons, what, we just stopped growing food? Or will good prices go up to a level to allow food production? There are, or at least, were, some folks talking about metal prices going to levels, in the near term, that seemed, even then, wildly unrealistic. But pragmatically, low prices that put the commodity below the cost of production is a virtual guarantee that there will be a reversion to at least the mean, and depending on how long it goes on, very likely far above it. Which, if you step back, also seems to indicate that there really is a systematic bias against PMs. The question is, who really buys this sort of double digit IQ ‘analysis’?

  23. an anecdotal evidence of chinese ppl’s love of gold. my father’s company employs a maid to cook meals. the maid comes from poor rural area. her daughter-in-law is asking for gold jewelry as gift. they are poor, but they bought in dec. last year. because they know buying gold jewelry is not spending money, but is actually saving wealth, which will be passed down to their grandchilden!

  24. chinese ppl grow up fondling gold rings passed down from older generations. this is culture, tradition, inherent love of things that last and are precious.

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