Are You Buying From Silver Users?

by Charles Savoie:

Ted Butler’s latest suggestion about Suing JP Morgan and the COMEX has prompted these thoughts. My response at Gold Silver Worlds http://goldsilverworlds.com/physical was this—

“Ted is the best of the best explaining these nuts and bolts. But where is his grasp of monetary matters? I see it not! The CME only cares about generating more fee income? No, it’s also an instrument of monetary suppression. Consumers have no input into pricing? No—the Silver Users Association has input into pricing. In the 1980 silver crash, a COMEX board member, Andrew Brimmer, was on the Federal Reserve Board several years earlier and was a Du Pont director at the time they slit silver’s throat.

Does anyone seriously think that SUA companies like Dow Chemical and Du Pont lack banking relationships with JPM Chase? Apart from these deficiencies, Ted’s article is quite commendable; but let us not be hindered by neglected aspect fallacies. I think if Ted took time to reflect, he’d at least agree on this metals consumer aspect. They are shorts—not neutrals. All raw materials users want the lowest price. Additionally there’s the problem of a Federal lawsuit having to be filed in Federal court. Who appoints Federal judges? The President appoints them. Judge Patterson who dismissed the silver lawsuit came straight from Rockefeller University Council. CME Group director William Miller II worked for the Rockefeller Foundation. Not happenstance.

The President is always a tool of these metals price squelchers; he belongs to The Pilgrims Society (see Google images) to which top bankers also belong. Morgan Chase has huge influence in all Presidential nominating processes, insuring the “right” judges will be appointed. Terrence Duffy of CME is a member of the Economic Club of Chicago, with Charles Evans head of the Chicago Fed Bank and Glenn Tilton of JPM Chase.

We may as well add the Federal Reserve as a defendant. As for The Pilgrims Society, a Congressional subpoena may be the only way to pry a roster out of the innards of this secretive oyster that ties us so strongly to the British financial establishment. What is the President doing involved with a group few people have ever heard of? The Royals come to see Obama; metals are still suppressed in his administration; and we see the continuing absurdity of $50 stamped on one ounce Canadian gold Maple Leaf coins made by the Royal Mint!”

Judge Patterson’s father was a director of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Andrew Brimmer, in addition to being a Du Pont director, was also at the time silver was exploded, a director of Bank of America. Who’s Who in America volumes, 1978-1981, confirm this. Bank of America was listed as a Silver Users Association member several years ago.

I am all for another silver lawsuit to be filed. However, with virtually all Federal judges corrupt, the chances are distant. All a judge has to do is say the regulator (CFTC) released its findings, and could not identify any malpractice in silver futures! But by all means—file the suit. A one in a thousand chance is worth going for. Meantime—are you all paying attention? When you shop for non-food items at supermarkets, or at a home improvement megastore, or a hardware store, or at an auto supply store—are you checking labels? Are you buying consumer products from Silver Users Association companies? Here’s their latest roster http://www.silverusersass Yes! I intentionally edited the URL to end with three suitable letters. For consumers, besides jewelry items from egotistical snob boor Tiffany & Company and lower-end upstart James Avery

Craftsman (a “Christian” company they call themselves), consumer products made by Dow Chemical and Du Pont should be avoidable.

These are the twin pillars of the Silver Users Association. http://www.dow.com/products/ Dow Chemical has been justifiably attacked for price fixing and massive groundwater contamination. SUA member Union Carbide merged into Dow Chemical in 2001. Americans of Indian national descent are often boycotters of Dow products. At http://www.unioncarbide.com/history it’s claimed the 1984 Bhopal, India, chemical disaster was caused by “industrial sabotage;” however, my understanding is that it was a refusal to spend funds for proper safe handling (refrigeration) of lethal chemicals that caused the leak! http://www2.dupont.com/Consumer/en_US/ describes Du Pont products—including paint. Before buying anything chemical related, check the label for these undesirable manufacturers https://www.youtube.com/w Dow Chemical paints. These chemical giants couldn’t exist without silver metal as a catalyst—and very hatefully abuse those who produce silver, unceasingly injuring their profitability. Hopefully none of you are banking with any megabank!

Dow and Du Pont are both in the water filtration business, very hypocritically as they’re the top two groundwater polluters in the U.S. and probably the world. In the scheme of things boycotting these interests isn’t a big blow against them. However, any lawful retaliation should be activated. A large advertising agency, Young & Rubicam, handles accounts for both mega-companies. Have a glance at a listing from page 1046 of the 1984-1985 Who’s Who in America to see a character who started with Y & R—

Yeah podnuh! Give me any opportunity; I’ll be mentioning The Pilgrims Society again! I checked their site www.pilgrimsociety.org which went up 5 and a half months after my Silver Stealers documentary went up (January 2011) http://silverstealers.net/tss.html I had the objective of checking again to see if the world’s premier gold and silver suppressors group has finally posted a roster. Nope! The Pilgrims remain the only globalist group still refusing to do what became standard for the others (under their management) and that is to post visible lists. This particular member married a Morgan who may be of the JP Morgan lineage; unconfirmed.

Alricks is a family name descended from the leaders of the Amsterdam Colony on the Delaware River circa 1657. In this person’s lineage also I notice a prominent judge and a leading banker in Baltimore in the 1800s, and a familial relation to the Cabell family (agriculture) and a direct link to the McCormick family of Chicago (International Harvester fortune). Additionally in his genealogical background is the Bruce family, largely based in Maryland. Note Fisher chaired the David Bruce Foundation,

named after a Pilgrims Society vice president in the late 60’s to at least the mid 70’s. Bruce was Ambassador to France, West Germany, England and NATO. Bruce was son in law of Pilgrims member Andrew Mellon, Treasury Secretary in three administrations and anti-silver activist. Bruce’s older brother James was also a Pilgrims member and a director of silver antagonist Chase National Bank. The Bruces descend directly from King Robert the Bruce of Scotland (1306-1329). This seems rather mysterious http://ohuiginn.net/panama/person/PIETER%20ALRICKS%20FISHER Also in his complex genealogy is the name Wessel, tracing to nobles in Saxon England over 1,100 years ago. Marriages between powerful families have been a premier way of concentrating wealth and this goes way, way back. It’s been in practice since the world’s first kingdoms and empires.

An amazing (and worrisome) amount of royalty passed on their genetics into this nearly unknown group. Fisher was a partner in Ramco Oil & Gas of Oklahoma City and owned a winery in Napa Valley http://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/26/obituaries/pieter Fisher was a partner in major metals antagonist Goldman Sachs during the Hunt/Arab silver play (and the crushing thereof) and during his stretch (1974-1986) saw lower level Goldman personalities Jeffrey Christian and Gary Gensler, ex-of the CFTC chairmanship. The chance of another silver lawsuit being summarily dismissed by a Federal judge appears quite high. It’s a dreamland theory; however, sometimes a bought off person breaks ranks. That’s a very off chance, and it’s all we are likely to have with a legal approach. We have a moral duty, however, to fight the metals suppressors, and should attempt all avenues, even when the deck is long since stacked against fairplay.

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30 Comments on "Are You Buying From Silver Users?"

  1. Ted is probably unsurpassed in his knowledge not only of the manipulation tactics but also what is feasible versus folly. I don’t recall in his article he was planning to sue, only an overview of what a suit would look like.

    I admire his determination even if he can’t change anything.

  2. I think Steve is spot-on in his assessment of what will break the physical silver price free from manipulation…only a rush of big money into silver, creating prolonged, profound shortages. That might be followed by a lot of small investors trying to buy something they see going up in prices.

    Meanwhile the ETF’s, Comex, etc. may sell paper shares at $15 per ounce while physical goes for a multiple of that…if they can still get investors to play their game once the physical price breaks from the manipulated “shares” price of claims on silver.

    • Totally agree David. You’d think that sooner or later some big money is going to look at the silver market and smell blood. Or some kind of mass awakening by the public.

      I sympathize with Ted Butler that he’d like to see the manipulation end by the rule of law while still living in a decent society. However I’m wondering if the only way the manipulation is going to end is when there is complete financial, commercial and political collapse with WW3 in the background.

  3. DaleFromCalgary | March 27, 2014 at 6:38 pm |

    Re: the absurdity of Royal Canadian Mint putting dollar values on its bullion coins. This is actually done for the legal reason that if anyone produces copies of these coins (regardless of metal content) then counterfeiting charges can be brought. Coins with no values on them are medallions and can be copied as “collectors’ replicas” or some such thing, escaping prosecution for counterfeiting currency.

  4. The SUA has been snorting up the silver stockpiles all these years like so many lines of cocaine, and doing so at rock bottom prices. I wonder how many ounces are in the landfill by now?

    • lastmanstanding | March 28, 2014 at 8:16 am |

      …or sprinkled across the world where the MIC has attempted to bomb enemies/terrorists back to the stone age.

  5. By theory i believe that there will be a Gold rush followed by a Sllver rush at a certain point down the road, but apparently were not nearly at the end of that road. Always when you think were at the end of the road they build some bridges to maintain the status quo. Nobody really knows how long that will last and it could be way longer than most people think.

    • Max,

      Completely agree. Charles Savoie has done readers a service by informing them the Silver Users Association is a powerful trade organization with deep banking ties. When I went to their web site they have been in existence since about 1948 if I recall correctly. No other writer I’ve read is mentioning them, but of course they would have a strong vested interest in holding the price down to about the cost of mining. At least mining in countries where labor and less government regulations make it profitable to mine [Mexico, Peru, Bolivia?].

  6. Oh my, I had such high hopes for your site last year. You published serious articles filled with actual data. Something that literally noone has been doing in the precious metals marketplace. But this year all you publish is conspiracy crap. I might as well read King World News. Everyone is conspiring with everyone against my investments. OMG! I understand that this crap is what people like to read and that brings in ad money, but still… There’s got to be some limits. If you have concrete data about a conspiracy, publish them. But please please please stop pushing crap like Person A. met Person B. somewhere and therefore they are obviously conspiring together. My brain can’t take it and I will have to stop visiting your site, too, just as I stopped visiting so many other sites (Ted’s newsletter included).

    • Anon, so basically you are saying you can’t handle the truth. There is an easy remedy for that – just stick to the main stream media….

      • Right… Jumping to conclusions, eh? I’d reiterate that it seems to me that when an investment goes south in the PM world, conspiracy theory articles tend to abound. And yet, despite of hundreds of articles full of allegations, there are no facts and no proof to be found. Just tons of crap. If you have proof, go through the judicial system. If you have no proof, then keep the real, factual articles coming. All I said in my initial comment is that I liked this site more when there were articles focused on facts rather than fiction. All you did is launch a personal attack on me, even though you know nothing about me. That’s what happens to crappy sites – crappy people with crappy arguments are the only fools left reading it. Too bad. This site had real potential.

        • Anon,

          I understand your frustration as it pertains to conspiracies and so-called manipulation. However, that is not the only subject discussed on this site. Matter-a-fact, this subject matter is really a very small percentage of what is published here.

          I still post articles on the primary miners break-even, declining ore grades and profitability I also provide data on all sorts of topics such as:

          1) Energy – natural gas & Oil
          2) The falling EROI
          3) U.S. gold imports and exports
          4) Gold scrap market
          5) Peak Oil
          6) Top gold miners production & ore grade declines
          7) Silver Eagle & Maple Leaf sales figures
          8) Silver Mining Production updates

          That is just off the top of my head. Now, you say that you just want the facts. I can appreciate that. However, a big part of the problem we have today is due to market rigging by the Fed, U.S. Treasury and member banks.

          The markets today are not based on fundamentals at all. How can it be when the overwhelming majority of investors in world are invested in paper assets that derive their value from a growing energy supply… when we are peaking in global energy production.

          This precisely why the precious metals are manipulated. The banks want the public to stay in worthless paper assets. Can’t do that if the price of gold and silver go skyward.

          I like to keep the site open to all forms of discussion.

          steve

        • roguefaction | March 28, 2014 at 9:07 am |

          GARSH!

          Whilst I was typing away at my usual slow brew comment[see below].. seems a tempest in a teapot has developed!

          Anon… while I appreciate you acuity of insight in seeing through the piece of fluff which adorns todays’ front portal here … it’s a matter of common knowledge that the site master is receiving no ad revenue… and by having spared us that ‘monetization’ of our attention is immune to your ill-mannered attack.

          That said, unless you are a “Dupont” or one of the other scions of the families the GUEST AUTHOR loves to throw his darts at…. you will be able to grasp that the blog will sooner or later need to pay for itself – and my best guess as to the owners’ intentions is that he is hoping to drive enough traffic to his site so as to be able to offer ‘special reports’ which will get enough interest to generate the income he requires to compensate his time. {EROI!}

          Since he believes that the bulk of his target market consists of those who have an interest in the precious metals, he appears to follow a strategy of throwing them a bone in hopes of luring them home! You or I are not in a position to gainsay his approach…

          BUT! can offer, through fair comment, a contribution to his site as he builds it into the ‘potential’ which you yourself have noted. It’s a long slow process to build a site into something successful for both it’s creator and it’s readers… equal contribution is mandatory.

          If you seek to access his insights without having the courtesy of contributing your own views along the way … excepting this acidic one!… then you will be indeed expecting “something for nothing”… and proving yourself part of the problem rather than any solution.

          • @roguefaction: On the contrary. I am willing to give something for something, i.e. should it come to the oft promised Reports, I will be more than happy to pay for them to receive real, factual data. The data-centric nature of the site was the one thing that made Steve’s web special and worthy of monetizing. I believe that I am free to make comments without being bundled into some kind of weird us versus them mentality. I also believe that it might be good for Steve to be reminded from time to time what brought in his traffic initially and that by publishing crappy articles he is antagonizing his supporters. While it might be good in a simplistic way to have one’s traffic multiplied using cheap conspiracies, it is also very bad in the long term. Because conspiracy chasers are not core readership and once they find a new and more conspiratorial site, they will go there. Obviously, Steve will do whatever he wants to do but I feel that I have a right to express my frustration with the latest bunch of articles some of which tend to downgrade his previous work and shun away a, perhaps, more serious kind of people, the kind of people who usually happen to have more cash for buying online reports. Whatever, just my two cents…

            @Steve: Thanks for the reply. Please, don’t take my comments the wrong way. I really like your site and that’s why I’d hate to see it go the KWN or Alex Jones way. Keep up the data digging. 🙂

          • roguefaction | March 29, 2014 at 2:03 am |

            @Anon

            while your responses here show commendable polemical skills, in the end they rely pon the forlorn hope that readers will have somehow deleted all memory of what you ACTUALLY wrote… and intended… rather than your cute effort to backtrack from your overthetop attack without having to apologize for it.

            The careful reader, however, is all too aware that you commenced with a blistering barrage of bluster…

            “all you publish is conspiracy crap”
            ” I will have to stop visiting your site”
            ” crappy people with crappy arguments are the only fools left reading it”

            in an all too transparent effort to intimidate the site owner via threat of abandonment into dovetailing his content with your own tastes. Nothing in your subsequent honeyed verbiage will erase that ‘message from the asylum” input that you have tried to pass off after the fact as ” All I said in my initial comment is that I liked this site more when there were articles focused on facts rather than fiction” – sorry… you like facts? Dems da facts! Oh my!

            IN FACT, in a general sense your LACK OF TACT, and the wit to apologize for it subsequently, puts your attempt to pose as a putative buyer of said reports in question marks too! Perhaps that is but more bluster… in the meanwhile, it remains true as I mentioned…

            contributing to the evolution of this site is something the reader of good faith can do via comments which build a sense of community, rather than a sense of entitlement and sneering dismissal of all that fails to meet with your favor. You owe the site owner and the readership an apology for your failed effort at petty intimidation. The debt will not be expunged with further effort to backtrack and bluster your way through.

        • anon's got a point | March 28, 2014 at 11:53 am |

          I agree w/ Anon’s point that the site has taken a wrong turn regarding “manipulation” of the silver market providing pretty useless info. What would the signs of manipulation be if silver prices are held artificially low? Industrial, investor, and jewelry demand will continue while production will flatten and eventually fall culminating in a supply shortage and demand shock. There is no supply shortage visible anywhere @ $50 or $20…and no inventories were liquidated to do this…just more mine supply than demand. However hard to believe, it’s simply more supply than demand. No industrial users report any slowdowns or difficulties sourcing, likewise for bullion banks, likewise for jewelers…prices have collapsed 60%, Indian demand increased global consumption by 20% last year, and this resulted in further price collapse and no shortages…if that’s manipulation – record demand resulting in collapsing prices and no shortage anywhere…then whatever is happening and whatever data the market has is wrong and there is no reason to believe the present situation isn’t sustainable.

          • The supply from the U.S. and Canada; countries that have higher labor costs and greater costs of complying with government regulations, IS drying up as mines and new exploration are “mothballed”. Steve and other credible writers have made that clear in previous articles and interviews.

            Countries like Mexico and Peru that have lower production costs are providing the supply. It is not from North America where increasing silver production is coming from.

          • Anon & Anon’s got a point,

            There are several items I would like to address here:

            1) to keep publishing new articles on this site, I try to post new information from many areas. For example, while Silver Eagle sales are not a big factor in the overall equation, it does shed some light on what is taking place in retail demand in certain sectors.

            2) when I post articles focusing on energy (which to me is actually more important than precious metals)… a receive 20% of the reads compared to a precious metal article. Which is why I try to include the energy data inside the precious metal articles.

            3) With this in mind, I have to write articles that will bring more readers. This may not be the quality you would expect because some are on the so-called manipulation theme. Unfortunately, this is part of the price I have to pay to generate enough Ad Revenue to justify the costs to run the site.

            4) As I have mentioned many times, energy is the most important factor going forward. Energy will be the key driver for pushing the values of gold and silver to new highs.

            5) I see the manipulation of the precious metals not as much as a daily rigging of the markets, but rather the systematic way in which Wall Street bamboozled the public into investing their hard-earned fiat currency into paper assets that will lose the majority of their value in the future.

            6) The reason paper assets will lose a great deal of value has everything to do with the peak and decline of global oil-energy production… as well as other energy factors.

            7) There is a dedicated effort by Wall Street and MSM to keep the real energy situation from the pubic and investors. Believe me you… I talk with energy analysts who tell me that some of their contacts in major media outlets tell them that they cannot write about PEAK OIL & GAS.

            8) This is not a lie, but ACTUAL FACT. So, there is fraud, manipulation and outright theft taking place on a grand scale. Whether we want to believe it or not.

            Lastly and on a personal note. This is not my only occupation. I have many other responsibilities. I would like to spend more time doing this, but my time is limited. It is quite difficult to keep new information coming while trying to get my REPORTS up and running. I am not going to get into the details… but I am behind in where I want to be with my REPORTS. Unfortunately there is only so much time in the day.

            However, I do believe when an individual understands the details behind the energy situation, they will CONNECT THE DOTS as to why the precious metals are seriously undervalued.

            thanks again for the comments,

            steve

    • Don’t forget to visit GATA’s site and summarily dismiss all evidence they have also.

      • Steve: You mentioned that you are being with your paid reports, do you have a revised ETA?

  7. roguefaction | March 28, 2014 at 7:02 am |

    As best I understand it, the author’s intent here is to establish in the minds of holders of ‘investment’ silver that their interests are directly opposed by those of ‘industrial’ users of the metal.

    That’s an argument worth presenting… one therefore has to ask – when will it be presented? It would seem that what appears here above is a copy of a comment the author left on another blog in response to Ted Butler’s latest effort to pin the blame for silver’s doldrums directly pon a collusion tween a commodities exchange and an investment bank.

    Charles appears to have fastened upon the opportunity to re-iterate his belief that nothing occurs in the world of silver pricing without the say so of an outfit called the ‘Pilgrims Society’ – what ensues takes the reader on a trajectory akin to that of a pinball in an arcade game… anything and everything is touched upon, from Bhopal to the Canadian mint… yet the connections are fleeting at the best.

    No one loves a good conspiracy theory more than I do. So, how about, before we gird ourselves to go out and ‘fight the metal suppressors’ in this noble cause of ‘moral duty’… we determine who our enemy really is? Riding a hobbyhorse, armed solely with innuendo, conjecture, and a quiver of spite for the long-ago humbled “british empire” seems a Quixotic way to go into battle gainst looming financial giants!

    • “That’s an argument worth presenting… one therefore has to ask – when will it be presented?” I already presented it. It’s available for anyone to read. You present no articles of your own, you merely act as a termite against the work of others. I wrote “The Silver Raiders” and “Silver Users Exporting Jobs” and “Silver Users In Open Warfare” and “Message To Miners and Silver Users” and others. The SUA has cited Butler, they have cited me. Their acknowledgement of you is—where? You attacked me for correcting Fekete, but he issued no rebuttal, and many sites carried or linked the article—Silver Seek—Silver Doctors—321 Gold—Gold Silver Finland—Miners Manual—Got Gold Report—E Wall Streeter—Gold Core et al. Where’s your article, point by point “rebutting” my article on Fekete? If you concoct it—will any reputable site post it? Googling “Charles Savoie silver” gives results. Your results are chronicled in what search engine? Your actual name is—what? I write under my actual name because I’m not in hiding. No, you’re just a philosophical nihilist lobbing rhetorical Molotov cocktails. My work has been cited by the Institute of Chartered Financial Analysts of India, Professor Ryan Jordan of the University of San Diego, Nick Barisheff of Bullion Management Group and others. Five and a half months after my site went up denouncing The Pilgrims Society for slamming silver and gold for over a century, the worthy gentlemen finally posted their own site. Next is to pressure them to post a roster. I’ve received accolades from Kenny Parsons, Jeff Nielson, David Morgan, Brother John F, Chris Duane, Bill Haynes of Certified Mint and others. Your commendations are from whom? The mirror of narcissus? Most sources who refuse my work do so in silence, because they can’t rebut it. You’re a reprobate who slops mud—so slop away. I hope you lose sleep fretting over my next release. This is likely my final response to you, because my schedule can’t justify ping-pong with snipers. I have no intention of reading any more of your shabby posts.

      • roguefaction | March 29, 2014 at 2:23 am |

        Dear Charles,

        I agree it’s wise of you to delete my contributions from your reading list. At this point, you’ve come to the realization that getting commendation for a sloppy pastiche of disconnected names and events is a little more challenging that you had previously assumed… based upon your evident success in doing just that on the usual fanboy sites where critical enquiry is required to be left at the door prior to entry… only [cult] ‘members’ may apply!

        But surely your dismay at being asked to come up to a higher standard than that does not require you to froth at the mouth in response?

        ” reprobate who slops mud…lose sleep fretting over my next release…philosophical nihilist lobbing rhetorical Molotov cocktails… a termite against the work of others” ??????

        …really, Sir Charles… you must try your hand at stand up comedy, as you’ve a talent at witless ad homs which provoke more laughter than the hoped for effect…

        and which far outweighs that which you apparently possess for reasoned argument! As soon as you can calm yourself …

        and as soon as Steve proves amenable to your demand for a ‘duel at dawn’… I shall eagerly meet your request, knight errant. My pen is ready to meet the onslaught of your quiver of mindless insults forthwith~

        Saddle up your Rocinate dude!

  8. I just wished Steve would share his DCA & amount of PM he owns so we can keep score.

    • I’m not 100% certain what DCA is; some revenue stream?

      Concerning the amount and type of PM’s he owns it’s no one’s business but his own.

      What do you want to “keep score” on?

  9. DCA = Dollar Cost Average.. In a full disclosure scenario we could all see how he’s faring on his PM purchases.Surely he’s been buying the whole time he’s been preaching

    IE: Is he really putting his money where his mouth is

  10. @roguefaction: Two things. First, all you did is pull three things out of context – within the context they are not so acidic at all. Second, while you tend to write long comments, the core ideas are nothing but pop psychologisms. You overestimate your ability to judge people through their specific comments and the generalizations you come up with are very misleading.

    • roguefaction | March 29, 2014 at 10:08 pm |

      Bingo!
      Thought I”d recognized the style from a previously encounter with your control and command mania… back under another name I see.
      If at first…

      bud. Here’s the bottom line. No One is interested in you telling them how to write… what to do with their web site… or how important you believe yourself to be in the grand scheme of things. Your continued effort to backtrack instead of own up continues to go nowhere.
      Get that settled in your mind… or join Sir Charles in the psycho ward!

      • Ha ha ha

        Sounds like you might think you’re talking to me, RF. But no, it’s just that many have responded the same way I did to your comments.

        But no, it’s not that your comments are overly verbose and short on content. It’s that we’re control freaks, fascists, etc. LOL.

  11. Who gives a shit?

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