The much-anticipated debate is now posted, and it’s up to each individual as to what they believe is the more important message. The discussion starts discussing the supposed billions of Grand Canyon Gold and then moves to market manipulation and why energy is so vital, even though most don’t consider energy.
To his credit, Bix has done quite a bit of research on the details behind the subject of Grand Canyon (actually Glen Canyon) gold and what he believes is a grand conspiracy to control gold and the gold price. On the other hand, using my KISS principle, Keep It Simple Stupid, I see the supposed Glen Canyon gold mystery as what it really is… and that is uneconomic gold that isn’t worth extracting.
Towards the end of the interview, Bix honestly said that he didn’t pay much attention to energy, as I have, because he doesn’t see how it relates to silver or the silver manipulation story. Thus, the most important thing I realized is that most people DO NOT truly understand how important energy is to our daily lives, so they just dismiss it by focusing on other things they think are more important. This is the main problem facing the world as we head over the ENERGY CLIFF.
I have to thank Tom from Palisades Radio for taking the time to host this debate. You can find more of Palisades Radio Interviews HERE: PALISADES GOLD RADIO.
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Good interview Steve, Bix.
We might even invite you around for a beer Bix when we get around too it. 😊
“Manipulation”
I call it “American Capitalism”. Another name, “Perpetual Growth”. The economy is a “Business Model, based on Exponential Growth”. It has a life span; when it collapses GOLD and SILVER will go through the roof. To be alive at that moment in time is a benefit if you are aware of it.
At the moment, I see no aberration in the price!
When you look at long term charts, from say, the early 1980s, they look normal to me, no “Aberrations”, other than a “PRICE” responding to events of that moment in time.
“Production Costs”
Just recently I had a very senior Geologist from a tier one mining company in my home. We looked at some charts, chatted about their resources and getting their stuff out of the ground. After a couple of hours, he said to me, “It’s all about the PRODUCTION COSTS”.
The first step towards “Production Costs” is “ENERGY”.
RedOpal,
While we agree on this issue of metals manipulation, the majority of precious metals analysts believe it is taking place. Now, I have to clarify the term “Precious metals analyst.” True professional metals analysts DO NOT believe in price rigging over the long term, only those in the Alt-Media & Precious metals community. Bix is one of the leading voices in metals manipulation and it makes perfect sense when he believe Energy isn’t important.
steve
Whatever the reasons, it’s difficult for me to understand why the price of silver is so low.
Steve,
Someone needs to remind Bix that Mark Twain once said “A mine is a hole in the ground with a liar standing next to it.”
eric paradis,
I sure hope some of the Energy Information stirred up something reflection in Bix and other people watching. If people DO NOT believe Energy is the key to our lives, then there is nothing I can do to convince them.
steve
Yes, the bubble in stocks sure doesn’t help.
Steve you nailed this interview. Bix was predictably annoying and ignorant, I loved you saying many times “Keep it simple (comma) stupid” 🙂 🙂 Also you pointing out that there are many more serious problems in this world that elites are concerned, rather than comex gimmicks or grand canyon fantasy stories which Bix’s life is all about…ahhh the small mindedness of the PM community.
I’d love to see you have a debate with more intelligent people but on the blockchain side of things(I know your negative view of it). I’d love to hear more talk about solutions or at least about more intelligent discussions of our current reality, because with Bix the topic had to be dumbed down and he still failed to understand the link between energy and resources.
I’d love to hear a debate between you and Reggie Middleton(keep aside all the bad news of him in 2019 SEC’s lawsuit), his background is Macroeconomics, macro-trends and risk-analysis of balance sheets etc… It’s a fact he’s got the foundational patent of conditional transfer of value on a blockchain, so this will impact also the future of the commodities(and oil) sector because they will be digitized(tokenized) and there are tectonic shifts in the way they will be restructured. I think Reggie needs some more challenging questions(the crypto community is as naive as Bix is) like the understanding you have of the thermodynamic collapse of the oil age and how blockchain can play a role in mitigating things.
If you’re open to this debate let us know and we’ll find a youtuber to host that.Thanks.
erPotax,
You bring up a good point in regard to debating other individuals in the Crypto or even the most sophisticated levels in the metals industry. One such individual that I keep in contact with is Phillip Newman, London Managing Director, about how energy is going to change the metals, markets, and economy, but I never get a reply back on the Energy info, but he does reply in regards to metals.
Most high-level individuals in the precious metals community DO NOT SEEM to care about ENERGY. So, this is the Key problem. However, as the ENERGY CLIFF starts to spread throughout the world, they will be forced to WAKE UP.
steve
“but I never get a reply back on the Energy info” this explains it all…
Steve have you researched on the 4th industrial revolution and the various agendas from WEF?(they’re not the mastermind, they are only promoters)
Seems to me they are proposing true solutions,still unclear how energy generation will be sustainable, but they are perfectly conscious about the unsustainability of our current financial and energy model.
I think there is misconception going on about the 4th IR as in being that sci-fi world that relies on tech and infinite energy, it’s core theme is about managing resources so it’s about wanting to make the world more energy efficient. I don’t think their main plan is about renewable energies devices(very energy inefficient, that’s certain), but the main plan is to incentivize people to work from home,basically let the world economy expand on the digital economy rather than the “physical” economy.
I could say the lockdowns in 2020 were a pilot project of the 4th IR, stay home and work from home,it gave a signal to people that life in the cities has become obsolete and they started to think of moving to more rural areas because the internet is the game changer for U-turning the population exodus from abandoning the land for living in urban areas. So blockchain and smart contracts is the core tech of the 4th IR(not officially stated) and they are tools that make possible transfer of value on the digital realm, thus supporting the digital economy that only has to flourish(so much dead money is in assets like commercial real estate,bonds etc…) and an energy crisis would only push the world economy into the digital economy, not the other way around.
BTC’s function was only as an initiator and the spreading of blockchain tech, its price increase was BTC’s main job to attract interest from people. But BTC’s blockchain is energy inefficient and obsolete, it’s just a matter of time a new blockchain with extremely low energy consumption will show up( like Hedera or Lightning Network), so the digital economy is not something which I expect to be hit because it (won’t) be energy intensive, also it’s a global network and will be always online, even if energy crisis disrupts some countries, the servers and the masternodes are spread globally and the network is always available to the GIW.
So tokenization of commodities(not just physical commodities but also reserves or expected future production) is the next big thing imo, because it changes the way the world will consume resources.Also Natural Capital and environmental aspects will be tokenized and considered parameters going to be added into economic transactions. An example is CO2 credits(I prefer to call them energy-credits) could be a parameter in any economic transaction, so instead of $ price there will be additional parameters in justifying the deal or consumption of resources, all this is possible only through smart contracts tech and this will imply that monetary status is not the only parameter for concluding the deal, there will be a more holistic and integrated approach in economic transactions. And all this is compatible with the new times when the energy crisis hits hard upon the world, because the implications are not only financial but also cultural.
https://youtu.be/cCxPOqwCr1I at 3:16 , all this has been predicted 50+ years ago by the Club of Rome, they’re not those “evil” elites that most people talk about, because they have basically stated (50 years ago!) what you are doing on Srsrocco which is the inevitable… So do you think the various agendas and programs nowadays don’t factor in the issues of thermodynamic collapse and energy crisis hitting on the GIW and the technology space? I believe they knew very well about that and have solid plans in managing the energy crisis. Yes, the common man will experience a downshifting in technological gadgets and comforts, but I can see how the digital world won’t be impacted and there are many options to make that available to the common man in any part of the globe. Smartphones and the satellite-internet(like starlink) are a way to give access to 8bln people to internet connectivity and by having super low energy consumption( if you factor per person use). Yes people will live mostly in rural areas, they will grow their own food, they won’t have cars(or at least trucks or big engines) and all that energy and $ savings will be used in investments in the digital world. This is apparently the vision of elites about the NWO after this energy crisis hits and lockdowns were a glimpse into the future economy: interestingly we’ve had seen negative oil prices,I know the true cause of that was due to contractual delivery on WTI and issues with logistics during lockdowns, I could also say they were a warning to the world of the future of the oil industry and the deflationary spiral due to the thermodynamic collapse of the oil age.
Interesting times…
I did appreciate when Bix finally said “I don’t really look at that” regarding the cost of production. One of the key criteria to make money a store of value is the energy it takes to produce it and you don’t have that with fiat produced with a mouse click. Another aspect is money’s store of energy value. I don’t feel like cryptocurrency has that either. Sound money doesn’t require electricity to hold it’s store of value. I do share Bix’s frustration with all the x billion paper ounces in existence. With gasoline, you’d never pull into the station and accept paper gallons, but somehow with precious metals, buyers willingly accept paper as a proxy for an ounce of metal that doesn’t actually exist. I don’t think it’s in dispute that there are more paper ounces in existence than actual metal. How much that matters in the scheme of things, who knows but it’s got to have some kind of distorting effect.
TaxDonkey,
The entire Debate can be summed up in Bix’s words… HE DOESN’T FOLLOW ENERGY or THINKS IT MATTERS.
Most believe in the ENERGY TOOTH FAIRY.
steve
Long time gold member here, and I need to say that this interview probably didn’t need to happen. I’m not knocking your message, it was as polished and rational as normal. However, why you chose to debate BIX is a question for me. The guy apparently thinks there is a conspiracy under ever leaf and rock.
As soon as BIX said energy prices are manipulated, I completely dismissed him as a delusional idiot. One of the reason’s I’ve been a gold member since DAY 1 of your service, is I that I agree there is not any “real” manipulation in the markets. I’ve been on commodity trades desks for more years than I care to remember, and if there is manipulation, it’s immaterial. Don’t fall into the trap of saying that supply and demand don’t matter. All commodities have to balance, whether that balance is on a minute, a day, a month, or a year; the markets have to balance. When someone tells me that ALL markets are manipulated, I’m willing to say sure, on any given moment there could be someone pushing price in a direction that helps their book, but you have to off your rocker to truly believe there is a grandiose banking conspiracy driving value. The size of the derivative market is irrelevant, and is a something that people who have never actually traded point to.
What drives gold and silver investors crazy is that they don’t understand how the NYMEX/COMEX trade. They don’t understand that the NYMEX/COMEX was setup to provide a market for the producers to hedge, and to fund loans to produce more commodities. The size of the derivative market is a reflection of liquidity.
I personally I didn’t really know who BIX was prior to this interview, but he really came off as completely delusional. I give you props to sticking to your message, as you always do.
GoStars,
I totally agree with you that the focus on Bix on the DEBATE WAS NOT MY CONCERN. I wasn’t debating Bix, rather, I was sharing this important Energy Information with thousands of people, many of who haven’t considered it. Who the hell knows, maybe some of the stuff I shared with Bix will make him think or reflect on Energy in the future. But, I did notice from the Youtube Comments, some people are WAKING UP.
This is the KEY. We try to wake up some people. That is all we can do.
steve
Great job, Steve. Your analysis of the energy situation and its relationship to the metals really does get to the core of what is going on. I was shocked that Bix came straight out and said that he doesn’t care about that relationship or energy. The justification was that the energy markets are manipulated just like the metals markets. So what? Banksters can’t manipulate the fact that it takes 65 gals of diesel to mine an ounce of gold and 0.2 gals to mine an ounce of silver. Those are the relationships that really matter.
I thought you might have emphasized more a point you’ve made in other posts, which is that the market is currently valuing gold as a monetary metal (which it always does), while it is valuing silver as a commodity metal. That satisfactorily explains the current gold/silver ratio. It’s when things start coming unglued and silver starts being valued on a monetary rather than commodity basis that we’ll see the gold/silver ratio drop significantly.
David T,
Honestly, I was quite stunned by Bix’s remark that Energy doesn’t matter. But, quickly, it made perfect sense why Bix and others go down that RABBIT HOLE of insignificant information that they think is so important. Unfortunately, the ENERGY CLIFF will destroy a lot of LOUSY ASSUMPTIONS and FAULTY ANALYSES.
steve
Excellent debate. Long but enjoyed all of it.
Bill Hare,
Glad you enjoyed the debate. I just wanted to get this information across more EYEBALLS, so debating Bix was my secondary reason to do so.
steve
This was a fine investment of a couple hours Steve…. Like to think I understand both points of view; Obviously Energy matters. I definitely appreciate both your words & glad you guys, and Tom too, are on this rock with me!
Excellent interview, Steve.
I have a hard time understanding how people who study money, currency, etc. don’t make a hard connection to energy which makes work possible which brings us the stuff. It was amazing when Bix asked “Isn’t everything energy?” And declared that it doesn’t help him to spin his head around that – very clearly demonstrating that he doesn’t understand how fundamental the energy part of the equation is. How can you spend decades being concerned with the value of things and not understand that energy is at the root of all of it?
I’m not what you’d call a “follower” of Bix Weir but I have been watching his presentations off and on for about ten years. There are a few things that he says which are a little off the wall, I’ll admit. However, to his credit he has put out many fine presentations on several subjects relating to precious metals. He truly does have a lot of knowledge and insight, no matter what people say. Bix also puts it together with some great subtle humor at times, which I enjoy. He does have a lot of passion for the truth as well as for right and wrong, and I respect that.
I think it’s important to sample and compare the works of many analysts. You never know where you might find an interesting and valuable insight, bit of wisdom or grain of truth. Great interview. High level of respect, understanding and professionalism shown by all.
I like your philosophy and perspective.
I’ll listen to a brilliant, experienced mind who is focused on the purchasing power preservation quality of hard assets, despite not being educated on the energy aspects of our lives.
I’m never tuning in Bix, but others out there are quite knowledgeable.
Thanx DC!
Argentum gratia argentis
Steve,
Your demeanor on this interview was absolutely superb. Philosophically speaking, you exhibited a high level of generosity, empathy and charity towards Bix. You won the “debate” with that, no matter what the message.
👍🏻
Can somewhat understand Bix’s concern with manipulation in the markets and how supply and demand determines commodity prices. But I really don’t get how he cannot but help to factor energy into the equation. If you’re buying a car one thing you’re likely to consider is how many miles per gallon the car will get. Why? Because over a period of time it’s a fairly large on-going part of the cost of ownership. And he can’t see that energy is also a large part of the cost of gold, silver or any other mined resource? Could it be that Bix and other analysts are only looking at the diesel and other fuels being burnt and not all the energy used for the exploration process, the building and developing of mines and creating all the specialized equipment that a profitable mine demands etc. Those huge tires on those huge dump trucks! Maybe I’m wrong (again), but don’t all those costs have to be reflected in the final price?
And if all that Grand Canyon gold is not only real but economically recoverable, since Bix is so concerned with supply and demand, what happens when not just billions of dollars of gold but billions of ounces of gold are dumped on the market? What happens to the demand and the gold price? Maybe we’ll finally see the streets paved with gold?
Steve, the 2 hours was fun and went by quickly. You were steadfast and patient and Bix was better than I thought he’d be. Good Work.
All I can say after spending over 40 years in financial services and almost half of that time with a top global bank (but Not as a banker!)- My experiences with “bankers” (money janitors) is where I came up with the phrase ” A big problem with the world is that there are More horses Asses than horses” As So as soon as I heard bix had a background in banking I knew why he didn’t get It and never will Until its too Late.
Steve,
What is both of you are correct? The gold and silver manipulations work to cap higher prices and prevent bitcoin like price runaways. On the other side of that coin energy and the cost of production set floor on price.
-Travis
Travis,
Is there any tangible evidence to support this claim? I fail to see why the trading desk at a bank wouldn’t allow the price of gold and silver to run away… that’s exactly what happened in early 2011. The price doubled in two months, then collapsed in an afternoon. I’m sure the trading desks were happy to make profits both on the run-up, then on the collapse down.
Actually, the proof of manipulation would be if silver traded like bitcoin. Yet, people love bitcoin, even though it’s well known that it’s being manipulated in both directions.
Silver will never trade like bitcoin because it’s an actual commodity restrained by physical realities. Virtual nothings like bitcoin can be $100 on Monday and $50,000 on Thursday.
I wish people traded more, then their minds wouldn’t succumb to nonsense from the likes of Bix of whom there are plenty in the gold-silver and alt-media space.